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栽怩弌傍利 卦指云慕朕村 紗秘慕禰 厘議慕尺 厘議慕禰 TXT畠云和墮 〆辺茄欺厘議箝誓匂〇

parmenides-及4何蛍

酔楯荷恬: 梓囚徒貧圭�鮗� ○ 賜 ★ 辛酔堀貧和鍬匈 梓囚徒貧議 Enter 囚辛指欺云慕朕村匈 梓囚徒貧圭�鮗� ● 辛指欺云匈競何! 泌惚云慕短嗤堋響頼���誅卒亮茂�俊彭堋響��辛聞喘貧圭 "辺茄欺厘議箝誓匂" 孔嬬 才 "紗秘慕禰" 孔嬬��




  Assuredly。



  But having no parts�察�it will be neither straight nor round��



  Right。



  And�察�being of such a nature�察�it cannot be in any place�察�for it



cannot be either in another or in itself。



  How so��



  Because if it were in another�察�it would be encircled by that in



which it was�察�and would touch it at many places and with many parts��



but that which is one and indivisible�察�and does not partake of a



circular nature�察�cannot be touched all round in many places。



  Certainly not。



  But if�察�on the other hand�察�one were in itself�察�it would also be



contained by nothing else but itself�察�that is to say�察�if it were



really in itself�察�for nothing can be in anything which does not



contain it。



  Impossible。



  But then�察�that which contains must be other than that which is



contained�拭�for the same whole cannot do and suffer both at once�察�and



if so�察�one will be no longer one�察�but two��



  True。



  Then one cannot be anywhere�察�either in itself or in another��



  No。



  Further consider�察�whether that which is of such a nature can have



either rest or motion。



  Why not��



  Why�察�because the one�察�if it were moved�察�would be either moved in



place or changed in nature�察�for these are the only kinds of motion。



  Yes。



  And the one�察�when it changes and ceases to be itself�察�cannot be



any longer one。



  It cannot。



  It cannot therefore experience the sort of motion which is change of



nature��



  Clearly not。



  Then can the motion of the one be in place��



  Perhaps。



  But if the one moved in place�察�must it not either move round and



round in the same place�察�or from one place to another��



  It must。



  And that which moves in a circle must rest upon a centre�察�and that



which goes round upon a centre must have parts which are different



from the centre�察�but that which has no centre and no parts cannot



possibly be carried round upon a centre��



  Impossible。



  But perhaps the motion of the one consists in change of place��



  Perhaps so�察�if it moves at all。



  And have we not already shown that it cannot be in anything��



  Yes。



  Then its coming into being in anything is still more impossible��



is it not��



  I do not see why。



  Why�察�because anything which comes into being in anything�察�can



neither as yet be in that other thing while still coming into being��



nor be altogether out of it�察�if already coming into being in it。



  Certainly not。



  And therefore whatever comes into being in another must have



parts�察�and then one part may be in�察�and another part out of that



other�察�but that which has no parts can never be at one and the same



time neither wholly within nor wholly without anything。



  True。



  And is there not a still greater impossibility in that which has



no parts�察�and is not a whole�察�coming into being anywhere�察�since it



cannot come into being either as a part or as a whole��



  Clearly。



  Then it does not change place by revolving in the same spot�察�not



by going somewhere and coming into being in something�察�nor again�察�by



change in itself��



  Very true。



  Then in respect of any kind of motion the one is immoveable��



  Immoveable。



  But neither can the one be in anything�察�as we affirm。



  Yes�察�we said so。



  Then it is never in the same��



  Why not��



  Because if it were in the same it would be in something。



  Certainly。



  And we said that it could not be in itself�察�and could not be in



other��



  True。



  Then one is never in the same place��



  It would seem not。



  But that which is never in the same place is never quiet or at rest��



  Never。



  One then�察�as would seem�察�is neither rest nor in motion��



  It certainly appears so。



  Neither will it be the same with itself or other�察�nor again�察�other



than itself or other。



  How is that��



  If other than itself it would be other than one�察�and would not be



one。



  True。



  And if the same with other�察�it would be that other�察�and not



itself�察�so that upon this supposition too�察�it would not have the



nature of one�察�but would be other than one��



  It would。



  Then it will not be the same with other�察�or other than itself��



  It will not。



  Neither will it be other than other�察�while it remains one�察�for not



one�察�but only other�察�can be other than other�察�and nothing else。



  True。



  Then not by virtue of being one will it be other��



  Certainly not。



  But if not by virtue of being one�察�not by virtue of itself�察�and if



not by virtue of itself�察�not itself�察�and itself not being other at



all�察�will not be other than anything��



  Right。



  Neither will one be the same with itself。



  How not��



  Surely the nature of the one is not the nature of the same。



  Why not��



  It is not when anything becomes the same with anything that it



becomes one。



  What of that��



  Anything which becomes the same with the many�察�necessarily becomes



many and not one。



  True。



  But�察�if there were no difference between the one and the same��



when a thing became the same�察�it would always become one�察�and when



it became one�察�the same��



  Certainly。



  And�察�therefore�察�if one be the same with itself�察�it is not one with



itself�察�and will therefore be one and also not one。



  Surely that is impossible。



  And therefore the one can neither be other than other�察�nor the



same with itself。



  Impossible。



  And thus the one can neither be the same�察�nor other�察�either in



relation to itself or other��



  No。



  Neither will the one be like anything or unlike itself or other。



  Why not��



  Because likeness is sameness of affections。



  Yes。



  And sameness has been shown to be of a nature distinct from oneness��



  That has been shown。



  But if the one had any other affection than that of being one�察�it



would be affected in such a way as to be more than one�察�which is



impossible。



  True。



  Then the one can never be so affected as to be the same either



with another or with itself��



  Clearly not。



  Then it cannot be like another�察�or like itself��



  No。



  Nor can it be affected so as to be other�察�for then it would be



affected in such a way as to be more than one。



  It would。



  That which is affected otherwise than itself or another�察�will be



unlike itself or another�察�for sameness of affections is likeness。



  True。



  But the one�察�as appears�察�never being affected otherwise�察�is never



unlike itself or other��



  Never。



  Then the one will never be either like or unlike itself or other��



  Plainly not。



  Again�察�being of this nature�察�it can neither be equal nor unequal



either to itself or to other。



  How is that��



  Why�察�because the one if equal must be of the same measures as that



to which it is equal。



  True。



  And if greater or less than things which are commensurable with



it�察�the one will have more measures than that which is less�察�and fewer



than that which is greater��



  Yes。



  And so of things which are not commensurate with it�察�the one will



have greater measures than that which is less and smaller than that



which is greater。



  Certainly。



  But how can that which does not partake of sameness�察�have either the



same measures or have anything else the same��



  Impossible。



  And not having the same measures�察�the one cannot be equal either



with itself or with another��



  It appears so。



  But again�察�whether it have fewer or more measures�察�it will have as



many parts as it has measures�察�and thus again the one will be no



longer one but will have as many parts as measures。



  Right。



  And if it were of one measure�察�it would be equal to that measure��



yet it has been shown to be incapable of equality。



  It has。



  Then it will neither partake of one measure�察�nor of many�察�nor of



few�察�nor of the same at all�察�nor be equal to itself or another�察�nor be



greater or less than itself�察�or other��



  Certainly。



  Well�察�and do we suppose that one can be older�察�or younger than



anything�察�or of the same age with it��



  Why not��



  Why�察�because that which is of the same age with itself or other��



must partake of equality or likeness of time�察�and we said that the one



did not partake either of equality or of likeness��



  We did say so。



  And we also said�察�that it did not partake of inequality or



unlikeness。



  Very true。



  How then can one�察�being of this nature�察�be either older or younger



than anything�察�or have the same age with it��



  In no way。



  Then one cannot be older or younger�察�or of the same age�察�either with



itself or with another��



  Clearly not。



  Then the one�察�being of this nature�察�cannot be in time at all�察�for



must not that which is in time�察�be always growing older than itself��



  Certainly。



  And that which is older�察�must always be older than something which



is younger��



  True。



  Then�察�that which becomes older than itself�察�also becomes at the same



time younger than itself�察�if it is to have something to become older



than。



  What do you mean��



  I mean this�此�A thing does not need to become different from



another thing which is already different�察�it is different�察�and if



its different has become�察�it has become different�察�if its different



will be�察�it will be different�察�but of that which is becoming



different�察�there cannot have been�察�or be about to be�察�or yet be�察�a



different´the only different possible is one which is becoming。



  That is inevitable。



  But�察�surely�察�the elder is a difference relative to the younger��



and to nothing else。



  True。



  Then that which becomes older than itself must also�察�at the same



time�察�become younger than itself��



  Yes。



  But again�察�it is true that it cannot become for a longer
卦指朕村 貧匯匈 和匯匈 指欺競何 壘��0�� 家��0��
酔楯荷恬: 梓囚徒貧圭�鮗� ○ 賜 ★ 辛酔堀貧和鍬匈 梓囚徒貧議 Enter 囚辛指欺云慕朕村匈 梓囚徒貧圭�鮗� ● 辛指欺云匈競何!
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