嗔秤戻幣�哉膵�云利匈嬉蝕湊蛸賜�塋床四衲���萩晦編報炎嘔囚^泡仟 ̄云利匈��
three dialogues-及8何蛍
酔楯荷恬: 梓囚徒貧圭�鮗� ○ 賜 ★ 辛酔堀貧和鍬匈 梓囚徒貧議 Enter 囚辛指欺云慕朕村匈 梓囚徒貧圭�鮗� ● 辛指欺云匈競何! 泌惚云慕短嗤堋響頼���誅卒亮茂�俊彭堋響��辛聞喘貧圭 "辺茄欺厘議箝誓匂" 孔嬬 才 "紗秘慕禰" 孔嬬��
a new set of sensations�察�existing only in his mind��
。 It is undeniable。
。 But�察�to make it still more plain�此�is not
a line turned endwise to the eye��
。 It is。
。 And can a line so situated be perceived by sight��
。 It cannot。
。 Doth it not therefore follow that distance is not
properly and immediately perceived by sight��
。 It should seem so。
。 Again�察�is it your opinion that colours are at a
distance��
。 It must be acknowledged they are only in the mind。
。 But do not colours appear to the eye as coexisting
in the same place with extension and figures��
。 They do。
。 How can you then conclude from sight that figures
exist without�察�when you acknowledge colours do not�察�the sensible
appearance being the very same with regard to both��
。 I know not what to answer。
。 But�察�allowing that distance was truly and
immediately perceived by the mind�察�yet it would not thence follow
it existed out of the mind。 For�察�whatever is immediately
perceived is an idea�此�and can any idea exist out of the mind��
。 To suppose that were absurd�此�but�察�inform me��
Philonous�察�can we perceive or know nothing beside our ideas��
。 As for the rational deducing of causes from effects��
��203�� that is beside our inquiry。 And�察�by the senses you can best
tell whether you perceive anything which is not immediately
perceived。 And I ask you�察�whether the things immediately
perceived are other than your own sensations or ideas�拭�You have
indeed more than once�察�in the course of this conversation��
declared yourself on those points�察�but you seem�察�by this last
question�察�to have departed from what you then thought。
。 To speak the truth�察�Philonous�察�I think there are two
kinds of objects�此 �the one perceived immediately�察�which are
likewise called �察�the other are real things or external
objects�察�perceived by the mediation of ideas�察�which are their
images and representations。 Now�察�I own ideas do not exist without
the mind�察�but the latter sort of objects do。 I am sorry I did not
think of this distinction sooner�察�it would probably have cut
short your discourse。
。 Are those external objects perceived by sense or by
some other faculty��
。 They are perceived by sense。
。 Howl Is there any thing perceived by sense which is
not immediately perceived��
。 Yes�察�Philonous�察�in some sort there is。 For example��
when I look on a picture or statue of Julius Caesar�察�I may be
said after a manner to perceive him ��though not immediately�� by
my senses。
。 It seems then you will have our ideas�察�which alone
are immediately perceived�察�to be pictures of external things�此�and
that these also are perceived by sense�察�inasmuch as they have a
conformity or resemblance to our ideas��
。 That is my meaning。
。 And�察�in the same way that Julius Caesar�察�in himself
invisible�察�is nevertheless perceived by sight�察�real things�察�in
themselves imperceptible�察�are perceived by sense。
。 In the very same。
。 Tell me�察�Hylas�察�when you behold the picture of
Julius Caesar�察�do you see with your eyes any more than some
colours and figures�察�with a certain symmetry and composition of
the whole��
。 Nothing else。
。 And would not a man who had never known anything of
Julius Caesar see as much�拭。�204��
。 He would。
。 Consequently he hath his sight�察�and the use of it��
in as perfect a degree as you��
。 I agree with you。
。 Whence comes it then that your thoughts are directed
to the Roman emperor�察�and his are not�拭�This cannot proceed from
the sensations or ideas of sense by you then perceived�察�since you
acknowledge you have no advantage over him in that respect。 It
should seem therefore to proceed from reason and memory�此�should
it not��
。 It should。
。 Consequently�察�it will not follow from that instance
that anything is perceived by sense which is not�察�immediately
perceived。 Though I grant we may�察�in one acceptation�察�be said to
perceive sensible things mediately by sense�此�that is�察�when�察�from
a frequently perceived connexion�察�the immediate perception of
ideas by one sense to the mind others�察�perhaps
belonging to another sense�察�which are wont to be connected with
them。 For instance�察�when I hear a coach drive along the streets��
immediately I perceive only the sound�察�but�察�from the experience I
have had that such a sound is connected with a coach�察�I am said
to hear the coach。 It is nevertheless evident that�察�in truth and
strictness�察�nothing can be �察�and the coach is
not then properly perceived by sense�察�but suggested from
experience。 So likewise when we are said to see a red´hot bar of
iron�察�the solidity and heat of the iron are not the objects of
sight�察�but suggested to the imagination by the colour and figure
which are properly perceived by that sense。 In short�察�those
things alone are actually and strictly perceived by any sense��
which would have been perceived in case that same sense had then
been first conferred on us。 As for other things�察�it is plain they
are only suggested to the mind by experience�察�grounded on former
perceptions。 But�察�to return to your comparison of Caesar's
picture�察�it is plain�察�if you keep to that�察�you must hold the real
things�察�or archetypes of our ideas�察�are not perceived by sense��
but by some internal faculty of the soul�察�as reason or memory。 I
would therefore fain know what arguments you can draw from reason
for the existence of what you call 。 Or�察�whether you remember to have seen them formerly as
they are in themselves�察�or�察�if you have heard or read of any one
that did。 ��205��
。 I see�察�Philonous�察�you are disposed to raillery�察�but
that will never convince me。
。 My aim is only to learn from you the way to come at
the knowledge of 。 Whatever we perceive is
perceived immediately or mediately�此�by sense�察�or by reason and
reflexion。 But�察�as you have excluded sense�察�pray shew me what
reason you have to believe their existence�察�or what you
can possibly make use of to prove it�察�either to mine or your own
understanding。
。 To deal ingenuously�察�Philonous�察�now I consider the
point�察�I do not find I can give you any good reason for it。 But��
thus much seems pretty plain�察�that it is at least possible such
things may really exist。 And�察�as long as there is no absurdity in
supposing them�察�I am resolved to believe as I did�察�till you bring
good reasons to the contrary。
。 What� �Is it come to this�察�that you only
the existence of material objects�察�and that your belief is
founded barely on the possibility of its being true�拭�Then you
will have me bring reasons against it�此�though another would think
it reasonable the proof should lie on him who holds the
affirmative。 And�察�after all�察�this very point which you are now
resolved to maintain�察�without any reason�察�is in effect what you
have more than once during this discourse seen good reason to
give up。 But�察�to pass over all this�察�if I understand you rightly��
you say our ideas do not exist without the mind�察�but that they
are copies�察�images�察�or representations�察�of certain originals that
do��
。 You take me right。
。 They are then like external things��
。 They are。
。 Have those things a stable and permanent nature��
independent of our senses�察�or are they in a perpetual change��
upon our producing any motions in our bodies suspending��
exerting�察�or altering�察�our faculties or organs of sense��
。 Real things�察�it is plain�察�have a fixed and real
nature�察�which remains the same notwithstanding any change in our
senses�察�or in the posture and motion of our bodies�察�which indeed
may affect the ideas in our minds�察�but it were absurd to think
they had the same effect on things existing without the mind。
。 How then is it possible that things perpetually
fleeting and variable as our ideas should be copies or images of
anything fixed and constant�拭�Or�察�in other words�察�since all
sensible ��206�� qualities�察�as size�察�figure�察�colour�察�&c。�察�that is��
our ideas�察�are continually changing�察�upon every alteration in the
distance�察�medium�察�or instruments of sensation�察�how can any
determinate material objects be properly represented or painted
forth by several distinct things�察�each of which is so different
from and unlike the rest�拭�Or�察�if you say it resembles some one
only of our ideas�察�how shall we be able to distinguish the true
copy from all the false ones��
。 I profess�察�Philonous�察�I am at a loss。 I know not what
to say to this。
。 But neither is this all。 Which are material objects
in themselves perceptible or imperceptible��
。 Properly and immediately nothing can be perceived but
ideas。 All material things�察�therefore�察�are in themselves
insensible�察�and to be perceived only by our ideas。
。 Ideas then are sensible�察�and their archetypes or
originals insensible��
。 Right。
。 But how can that which is sensible be like that
which is insensible�拭�Can a real thing�察�in itself �察�be
like a �察�or a real thing�察�which is not �察�be like
a �拭�In a word�察�can anything be like a sensation or idea��
but another sensation or idea��
。 I must own�察�I think not。
。 Is it possible there should be any doubt on the
point�拭�Do。 you not perfectly know your own ideas��
。 I know them perfectly�察�since what I do not perceive
or know can be no part of my idea。
。 Consider�察�therefore�察�and examine them�察�and then tell
me if there be anything in them which can exist without the mind��
or if you can conceive anything like them existing without the
mind。
。 Upon inquiry�察�I find it is impossible for me to
conceive or understand how anything but an idea can be like an
idea。 And it is most evident that 。
酔楯荷恬: 梓囚徒貧圭�鮗� ○ 賜 ★ 辛酔堀貧和鍬匈 梓囚徒貧議 Enter 囚辛指欺云慕朕村匈 梓囚徒貧圭�鮗� ● 辛指欺云匈競何!
梁椣戻幣�� 梁心弌傍議揖扮窟燕得胎��傍竃徭失議心隈才凪万弌誌育断蛍�輌臆惨軼僑〃�燕慕得珊辛參資誼持蛍才将刮襲潜��範寔亟圻幹慕得 瓜寡追葎娼得辛參資誼寄楚署衛、持蛍才将刮襲潜填��