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three dialogues-及6何蛍

酔楯荷恬: 梓囚徒貧圭�鮗� ○ 賜 ★ 辛酔堀貧和鍬匈 梓囚徒貧議 Enter 囚辛指欺云慕朕村匈 梓囚徒貧圭�鮗� ● 辛指欺云匈競何! 泌惚云慕短嗤堋響頼���誅卒亮茂�俊彭堋響��辛聞喘貧圭 "辺茄欺厘議箝誓匂" 孔嬬 才 "紗秘慕禰" 孔嬬��


unreasonable on your side to insist any longer upon what you have
no notion of。

     。 To confess ingenuously�察�I cannot。

     。 Can you even separate the ideas of extension and
motion from the ideas of all those qualities which they who make
the distinction term ��

     。 What� �is it not an easy matter to consider extension
and motion by themselves�察�abstracted from all other sensible
qualities�拭�Pray how do the mathematicians treat of them��

     。 I acknowledge�察�Hylas�察�it is not difficult to form
general propositions and reasonings about those qualities��
without mentioning any other�察�and�察�in this sense�察�to consider or
treat of them abstractedly。 But�察�how doth it follow that�察�because
I can pronounce the word  by itself�察�I can form the idea
of it in my mind exclusive of body�拭�or�察�because theorems may be
made of extension and figures�察�without any mention of  or
�察�or any other sensible mode or quality�察�that therefore it
is possible such an abstract idea of extension�察�without any
particular size or figure�察�or sensible quality�撮�3 �А。�should be
distinctly formed�察�and apprehended by the mind�拭�Mathematicians
treat of quantity�察�without regarding what other sensible。
qualities it is attended with�察�as being altogether indifferent to
their demonstrations。 But�察�when laying aside the words�察�they
contemplate the bare ideas�察�I believe you will find�察�they are not
the pure abstracted ideas of extension。

     。 But what say you to �拭�May not
abstracted ideas be framed by that faculty��

     。 Since I cannot frame abstract ideas at all�察�it is
plain I cannot frame them by the help of �察。�194��
whatsoever faculty you understand by those words。 Besides�察�not to
inquire into the nature of pure intellect and its spiritual
objects�察�as �察。察。察�or the like�察�thus much
seems manifest  that sensible things are only to be perceived
by sense�察�or represented by the imagination。 Figures�察�therefore��
and extension�察�being originally perceived by sense�察�do not belong
to pure intellect�此�but�察�for your farther satisfaction�察�try if you
can frame the idea of any figure�察�abstracted from all
particularities of size�察�or even from other sensible qualities。

     。 Let me think a little  I do not find that I can。

     。 And can you think it possible that should really
exist in nature which implies a repugnancy in its conception��

     。 By no means。

     。 Since therefore it is impossible even for the mind
to disunite the ideas of extension and motion from all other
sensible qualities�察�doth it not follow�察�that where the one exist
there necessarily the other exist likewise��

     。 It should seem so。

     。 Consequently�察�the very same arguments which you
admitted as conclusive against the Secondary Qualities are��
without any farther application of force�察�against the Primary
too。 Besides�察�if you will trust your senses�察�is it not plain all
sensible qualities coexist�察�or to them appear as being in the
same place�拭�Do they ever represent a motion�察�or figure�察�as being
divested of all other visible and tangible qualities��

     。 You need say no more on this head。 I am free to own��
if there be no secret error or oversight in our proceedings
hitherto�察�that all sensible qualities are alike to be denied
existence without the mind。 But�察�my fear is that I have been too
liberal in my former concessions�察�or overlooked some fallacy or
other。 In short�察�I did not take time to think。

     。 For that matter�察�Hylas�察�you may take what time you
please in reviewing the progress of our inquiry。 You are at
liberty to recover any slips you might have made�察�or offer
whatever you have omitted which makes for your first opinion。

     。 One great oversight I take to be this  that I did
not sufficiently distinguish the  from the 。
Now�察�though this latter may not exist without the mind�察�yet it
will not thence follow that the former cannot。

     。 What object do you mean�拭�the object of the senses��

     。 The same。

     。 It is then immediately perceived�拭。�195��

     。 Right。

     。 Make me to understand the difference between what is
immediately perceived and a sensation。

     。 The sensation I take to be an act of the mind
perceiving�察�besides which�察�there is something perceived�察�and this
I call the 。 For example�察�there is red and yellow on that
tulip。 But then the act of perceiving those colours is in me
only�察�and not in the tulip。

     。 What tulip do you speak of�拭�Is it that which you
see��

     。 The same。

     。 And what do you see beside colour�察�figure�察�and
extension��

     。 Nothing。

     。 What you would say then is that the red and yellow
are coexistent with the extension�察�is it not��

     。 That is not all�察�I would say they have a real
existence without the mind�察�in some unthinking substance。

     。 That the colours are really in the tulip which I see
is manifest。 Neither can it be denied that this tulip may exist
independent of your mind or mine�察�but�察�that any immediate object
of the senses�察 �that is�察�any idea�察�or combination of ideas 
should exist in an unthinking substance�察�or exterior to 
minds�察�is in itself an evident contradiction。 Nor can I imagine
how this follows from what you said just now�察�to wit�察�that the
red and yellow were on the tulip �察�since you do not
pretend to  that unthinking substance。

     。 You have an artful way�察�Philonous�察�of diverting our
inquiry from the subject。

     。 I see you have no mind to be pressed that way。 To
return then to your distinction between  and ��
if I take you right�察�you distinguish in every perception two
things�察�the one an action of the mind�察�the other not。

     。 True。

     。 And this action cannot exist in�察�or belong to�察�any
unthinking thing�察�but�察�whatever beside is implied in a perception
may�拭。�196��

     。 That is my meaning。

     。 So that if there was a perception without any act of
the mind�察�it were possible such a perception should exist in an
unthinking substance��

     。 I grant it。 But it is impossible there should be such
a perception。

     。 When is the mind said to be active��

     。 When it produces�察�puts an end to�察�or changes��
anything。

     。 Can the mind produce�察�discontinue�察�or change
anything�察�but by an act of the will��

     。 It cannot。

     。 The mind therefore is to be accounted  in
its perceptions so far forth as  is included in them��

     。 It is。

     。 In plucking this flower I am active�察�because I do it
by the motion of my hand�察�which was consequent upon my volition��
so likewise in applying it to my nose。 But is either of these
smelling��

     。 。

     。 I act too in drawing the air through my nose��
because my breathing so rather than otherwise is the effect of my
volition。 But neither can this be called �此�for�察�if it
were�察�I should smell every time I breathed in that manner��

     。 True。

     。 Smelling then is somewhat consequent to all this��

     。 It is。

     。 But I do not find my will concerned any farther。
Whatever more there is  as that I perceive such a particular
smell�察�or any smell at all  this is independent of my will�察�and
therein I am altogether passive。 Do you find it otherwise with
you�察�Hylas��

     。 No�察�the very same。

     。 Then�察�as to seeing�察�is it not in your power to open
your eyes�察�or keep them shut�察�to turn them this or that way��

     。 Without doubt。

     。 But�察�doth it in like manner depend on  will
that in looking on this flower you perceive  rather than
any other colour�拭�Or�察�directing your open eyes towards yonder
part of the heaven�察�can you avoid seeing the sun�拭�Or is light or
darkness the effect of your volition��

     。 No�察�certainly。

     。 You are then in these respects altogether passive��
��197��
     。 I am。

     。 Tell me now�察�whether  consists in perceiving
light and colours�察�or in opening and turning the eyes��

     。 Without doubt�察�in the former。

     。 Since therefore you are in the very perception of
light and colours altogether passive�察�what is become of that
action you were speaking of as an ingredient in every sensation��
And�察�doth it not follow from your own concessions�察�that the
perception of light and colours�察�including no action in it�察�may
exist in an unperceiving substance�拭�And is not this a plain
contradiction��

     。 I know not what to think of it。

     。 Besides�察�since you distinguish the  and
 in every perception�察�you must do it in that of pain。
But how is it possible that pain�察�be it as little active as you
please�察�should exist in an unperceiving substance�拭�In short�察�do
but consider the point�察�and then confess ingenuously�察�whether
light and colours�察�tastes�察�sounds�察�&c。 are not all equally
passions or sensations in the soul。 You may indeed call them
�察�and give them in words what subsistence you
please。 But�察�examine your own thoughts�察�and then tell me whether
it be not as I say��

     。 I acknowledge�察�Philonous�察�that�察�upon a fair
observation of what passes in my mind�察�I can discover nothing
else but that I am a thinking being�察�affected with variety of
sensations�察�neither is it possible to conceive how a sensation
should exist in an unperceiving substance。 But then�察�on the other
hand�察�when I look on sensible things in a different view��
considering them as so many modes and qualities�察�I find it
necessary to suppose a �察�without which they
cannot be conceived to exist。

     。  call you it�拭�Pray�察�by which of
your senses came you acquainted with that being��

     。 It is not itself sensible�察�its modes and qualities
only being perceived by the senses。

     。 I presume then it was by reflexion and re
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